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To a USA young man surprised that intactivism exists | consa's Blog


A growing number of North American women of child bearing age find routine infant circumcision disgusting and sexually weird. That's simply a fact. And such women are not afraid of saying what they think on the internet. A result is that you often can't get away with being pro-circ, or saying that circ doesn't matter, on the internet. This recently happened to you. I am writing to you because these women did not take the time to explain things dispassionately to you.

The brothers, boyfriends, and husbands of most adult American and Canadian women were circumcised at birth last century without local anesthesia. This fact disgusts a lot of women.

Do men remember their infant circumcisions? Rarely, maybe never. Does this lack of memory make circ less evil? No; read on to see why. Does circ detract from male sexual pleasure? Yes, simply because the parts of the male body sacrificed to circ are incredibly rich in nerves. Do many circed men have acceptable adult sex lives? Yes. Do some men have serious sexual problems because they were circumcised as infants? Yes, and American research has not been honest about this possibility. Are there circumcised men who are quite content with their sex lives when they are 20-30, and who are miserable at 50-60? Yes. Think of a circumcised penis as being like a whiteboard marker whose cap has been lost. Over time, it dries up.

Are there women who have slept with both kinds of men, noticed that intact partners are more fun, and are willing to share that conclusion on the internet? Yes. Are there women who have been intimate only with circed men, but have nevertheless concluded that intercourse with circed men is not all that intercourse can and should be? Yes. This category includes women who are chronically sore after intercourse, women whose lubrication is not as ample as they would like, and women who simply climax erratically. Are there young American women who complain that a lot of their sexual experiences have been too rough: too hard, too fast, too deep? Yes. Have some women in this situation concluded that circumcised penises are to blame? Yes.

The deep reason why millions of American parents continue to circumcise their baby boys is that to them, the natural penis looks weird. They fear that an intact boy will be mocked in the locker room, and rejected in the bedroom when he begins his sex life. I lived this fear until I met my wife in my late 30s. I was 34 when I read for the first time that the obsession of American parents and obstetrics to make the penis bald was simply a major mistake. I later discovered that this mistake was sexual as well as medical. American sex education and prenatal classes, and the information on human sexuality available in your typical mall bookstore, is not at all honest about the content of this post. And the reason for that is the common sense evident one: if what I say is correct, American routine circumcision is a medical mistake and sexual disaster of the first order.

Are there American parents who have circumcised one or more sons, then have been shattered to learn what I write above? Yes. Do some of these parents find it difficult to forgive themselves and move on? Yes. Are there women who circed their baby boys, then became major anti-circumcision advocates years later? Yes. Marilyn Milos and Rosemary Romberg are cases in point.

This Blog Entry's Comment Board (9 comments)
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aroserises
Posted on 02:24PM on Dec 26th, 2010
I like the simple analogy of the circumcised penis being like a whiteboard marker missing it's cap and drying up over time. It not only dries up, but it becomes like sandpaper with the grit increasing in coarseness over time. OUCH!
Fulke
Posted on 04:43PM on Dec 26th, 2010
People like me (who is circumcised) may not remember consciously their f cutting But I am convinced that many suffer from post traumatic stress caused by this action.This has various results bu fort me it was revealed in a sense of inadequacy and a lack of self-confidence
consa
Posted on 05:35PM on Dec 26th, 2010
Fulke, you are a British senior citizen. You live in a culture where circ never exceeded about one third, and where the circ rate went into free fall starting in 1950. So when you go to the changing room in a swimming bath, you feel odd. Hence your "sense of inadequacy and lack of self confidence [with women]." In the USA, it is we men who remained the way nature made us that had those feelings until 10-15 years ago.

In the first half of the 20th century, there are UK mums from lower middle and working class families who had their sons circ out of a desire to ape their betters, and to increase the chances that their sons would be upwardly mobile. The result is that you could have lived your life being the odd man out when with people you were otherwise most comfortable with. One thing is certain: circumcision has very much become a status and class marker. In North America, the natural penis often marked a boy as having humble origins.

I am not qualified to have an opinion about circ as a possible cause for post traumatic stress.
consa
Posted on 05:44PM on Dec 26th, 2010
@aroserises: the most powerful and vivid ways to communicate ideas to people not used to thinking abstractly and scientifically is via analogy and metaphor. You reciprocated to my use of "whiteboard marker" by invoking "sandpaper." I did not know it could hurt that bad.

But rest assured that I grew up hearing a lot of ugly sarcasm from hardened women students in my college days, about the sexual abilities of the men they knew. Lack of commitment and true passion were problems. Men refusing to use condoms and forcing their partners to use the pill or diaphragms were problems. But I really wonder if the deep source of many problems these women experienced was that their partners were circumcised. The USA is not a good place to investigate this possibility. Australia and Canada are, because there is a fair mix of both kinds of men all up and down the social scale.

An article based on a small self selected sample concluded that New Zealand women strongly prefer intact. But I have never heard of that being a factor in any conversation or gossip that's come my way down here.
Fulke
Posted on 05:34AM on Dec 29th, 2010
consa.I was not the odd one out. In my time at School and College at least 50-60% of us were circumcised. but I always knew being circumcised was not natural and that was the issue.Thank God only around !% are now cut and even in USA the figure is going down quite fast. I cannot understand the whole category of people who are circumcised for "religious reason" it makes no sense except as a sort of primitive tribalism
consa
Posted on 01:11PM on May 20th, 2011
@Fulke: To your eye, the moving bits on the end of the willy are completely normal. For many Americans, most Jews, and damn near all Moslems, those bits are NOT normal but distasteful, even repugnant. Tens of millions of everyday adult Americans have never seen a natural penis in the flesh. Many demure American women really have no idea what nature intended the penis to look like. "Religious reasons" puzzle you. Let me share my thoughts. Religions circumcise for reasons related to why the dress uniforms of military officers feature "fruit salad" on the chest. To why the clergy of a number of Christian denominations wear dog collars. Let me go deeper yet. A young man strikes up a friendship with a Jewish or Moslem young woman. She asks "Are you a Jew/Moslem?" He knows that if he answers No, their dealings will remain at best platonic. So he says Yes. One day, after a candlelit dinner, she invites him into her bedroom. While fondling his penis in the dark, she discovers that the shaft skin has a lot of mobility. She turns the light on, and confirms that she can pull the skin up over the glans. Her jaw hardens, she looks him in the eye, and she says quietly but firmly "You are a liar. Get dressed and get out." This scenario is not possible unless Jews and Moslems circumcise. Circumcision does a lot to preserve Judaism and Islam as endogamous communities, and that is the deep reason why the cutting persists. I have a friend who is an atheist of Jewish ancestry. He happily did not circumcise his boys. His father fussed "no one will believe that my grandsons are Jews." The man who made this complaint was so disconnected from Judaism that he was for decades the disciple of a British Indian guru. It is by the bald penis that we recognise our own. American routine circumcision was a huge pipe wrench thrown into this psychological machinery. If everybody is cut, then being cut conveys no information. I know of no reliable evidence on how many American baby boys are cut nowadays. I very much reserve judgement about the claim, made since August 2010, that the rate in 2009 was as low as 33%. I very much suspect it is more like 50-55%. The unspoken reason for American routine infant circumcision is that parents fear that an intact son will be a social failure. Few parents have the sexual or urological sophistication required to evaluate the other alleged reasons to circumcise.
Fulke
Posted on 08:45AM on Jan 1st, 2011
What puzzles me is how circumcision became religious rite in the first place. I know it seem to have begun in Egypt and I am also aware that primitive circumcision was simply cutting off the tip of the foreskin and that the radical circumcision we know today is a comparatively recent development.The Bible gives no reason why it started just says that it did and the Koran does not mention it at all. It seems to me to be just primitive and tribal.
pdqsailor1
Posted on 11:02AM on Feb 10th, 2013
I have never heard of ANY situation where a circumcised male would be refused oral or penetrative sex only for the fact that he has been circumcised.

I regularly hear of situations where an uncircumcised male would be refused oral or penetrative sex only for the fact that he has a foreskin.

I know in the case of our Daughters - no man who has a foreskin will EVER have a chance with them.

So the choice and he decision is CLEAR - why limit his future by choosing to leave him with a foreskin which in some cases will eliminate his opportunities? Circumcision will allow entry to a situation that intactness limits. Circumcision alone will never be cause to be denied entry to the same situations.

Now intact men don't like the fact that some women will reject them for this reason alone but never the less it is a fact.
consa
Posted on 11:17AM on Feb 10th, 2013
All sorts of aspects of human beings "limit their opportunities." If you have a IQ, those with average intelligence find that intimidating. If you have an average IQ, those with high IQ find you boring.

It is completely unrealistic to expect all people to be all things to all others. I am happy to do without the sexual services of women who find foreskin disgusting, in exchange for the passion of women who find foreskin sophisticated and intriguing.

"I regularly hear of situations where an uncircumcised male would be refused oral or penetrative sex only for the fact that he has a foreskin. "
This never happens in cultures that do not circumcise. What you describe is not a human universal, but a product of American sexual provinciality. If a man has dirty ****, wash him and/or use a condom. Don't suffer in silence and then advocate that every baby boy undergo an amputation in his most private place.

Your daughters may surprise you, especially after you are dead or infirm. And your granddaughters may surprise you even more, because the only thing I am certain of is that circumcision is a fashion, and all fashion changes over time.

A human being with no enemies, one who does not antagonise some people, a person who has no strong opinions, a person who is haunted by the fear that he might prove unpopular in certain circles, is someone for whom I have no time or respect.

If I were to tell a woman that I like her but she needed larger breasts, or smaller labia minora, or should shave off her pubic hair, I would expect her to show me the door and stop returning my phone calls. I feel the same way about a woman who asked me to get circumcised.

When the body and attitudes about the body clash, reexamine the attitudes, don't alter the body.

And there are women who have told me that they will not sleep with cut men. Even Jewish women.
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